Can We Really Fix Methane Without Breaking Digestion?

Dr. Kelly Nichols, Assistant Professor at UC Davis sits down with CLEAR Conversations host, Tracy Sellers. The Nichols Lab focuses on characterizing the digestive and metabolic flexibility of dairy cattle to elevate our understanding of dietary protein and energy interactions, mammary gland metabolism, and postabsorptive nutrient utilization to improve the transfer of dietary nutrients into milk. Her lab conducts studies investigating metabolite flux at the tissue level (e.g., mammary gland), energy and nitrogen balance, digestibility, and milk production in response to nutritional interventions. Further, she is interested in how the postabsorptive efficiencies of nutrients (e.g., amino acids) interact and change with the physiological state of the cow throughout lactation. Listen on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/clear-conversations/id1844923534 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0EsxxMUuHGRysasRq5k1bS iHeartRadio: https://iheart.com/podcast/299490214 Amazon Music/Audible: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/94808eee-a498-49ec-a3da-9bae97d0250d

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Mitigating

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enteric methane,

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and what could be

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the consequences of

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drastically reducing

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a really essential cycle

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in the rumen.

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We're very focused

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on hitting

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those targets, reducing

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and coming up

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with really innovative

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ways to do that.

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But we might be missing

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some of that down

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the road

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Consequences,

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for example,

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how that interacts

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with protein

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metabolism in the body.

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Well,

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welcome to the Clear

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Conversations podcast.

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We're excited.

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You're here

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with us today.

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Today

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we're going to be talking

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about cows and nutrition

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And sustainability.

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They're all

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tied together.

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They're all connected.

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And our guest today

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is Kelly Nichols.

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She's an assistant

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professor

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of animal science

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here at UC Davis.

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Welcome, Kelly. Thanks.

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Thanks for having me.

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Great to be here.

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Thanks for

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being here with us.

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So first of all,

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tell us a little bit

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about yourself,

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your background

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and how you got to study

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dairy nutrition

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in particular.

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So yeah, I'm

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a dairy nutritionist.

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I'm from Canada

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originally, didn't

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grow up with dairy cows.

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I actually grew

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up on a horse farm,

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so I always knew

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kind of the realities

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of taking care of large

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animals 365 days a year.

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At first I thought I

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wanted to be a vet,

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but when I went to

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the University of Guelph

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to do my undergrad,

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that's where I started

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to get involved

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in research projects.

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And,

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one of the labs

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I worked in

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was a dairy

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nutrition

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and metabolism lab.

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And you combine

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that with

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some of the courses

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I was taking,

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and I really fell in love

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with ruminant metabolism

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and how nutrition

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can influence

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how,

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all of the metabolic

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pathways work

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in, particularly dairy

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cows under the

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condition of lactation.

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So that's what

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I really got

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interested in.

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I ended up

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going to grad school,

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so I did a master's

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at the University

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of Guelph,

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and then I had the

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really cool opportunity

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to move to

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the Netherlands,

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to do my PhD

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at Wageningen

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University,

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which is kind of like

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the UC Davis of Europe.

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You could say.

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So actually,

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they're often

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competing a little bit

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in the world

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rankings around things

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like environmental

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science programs,

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agricultural science

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programs, both super top,

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in those areas.

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So, I lived in

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total over there

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for ten years.

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I did my PhD,

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and then I worked

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in industry

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for the last five years

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for a company

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called Trouw Nutrition.

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In their research

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and development

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ruminant research team.

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So I have

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kind of the

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academic background

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with some

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industry experience.

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And then I joined

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the animal science

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department here,

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in March 2024.

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So what is that,

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a year and a half?

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Yeah, I've been here.

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Yeah, yeah. Excellent.

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Well, you touched upon it

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there.

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Tell us a little bit

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about your time

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in the Netherlands

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and how they're dealing

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with cows in the climate.

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Very small country,

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but a lot of livestock.

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And they,

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they're dealing with it

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in some interesting ways.

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Yeah.

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So, indeed,

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the Netherlands

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is a very tiny country,

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and there are

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there's a

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lot of livestock.

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So that kind of poses

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an interesting challenge.

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It's very dense

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with,

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agricultural animals

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that are producing manure

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on a very small landmass.

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And like, everywhere

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that manure,

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can be very useful

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for being spread

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on the land

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and fertilizing crops,

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and that's fine.

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But when the amount

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of manure

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and the nutrients

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in the manure,

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like nitrogen

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and phosphorus,

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starts

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to exceed the boundaries

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of what

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the land

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can really manage

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and use efficiently,

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you start to get impacts

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on the environment.

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So this has

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been happening

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in the Netherlands

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already for years

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and years, long

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before I lived there.

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And they've done

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a few different

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iterations of legislation

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to try to regulate

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how much manure

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or more specifically,

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on the nitrogen side,

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the nitrogen

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in the manure

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can actually be deposited

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on the land

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for a farm.

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And over the years,

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there have been

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a lot of changes to that.

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And a lot of that's

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been driven

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by measured

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negative impacts

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of nitrogen on nature

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preservation areas

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and other

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environmental impacts

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like air quality

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and things like that.

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And when I moved

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there in 2014,

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they had just had

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kind of a new wave

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of some of these changes

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to nitrogen

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related regulations,

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that were starting

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to put even

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more pressure on farms

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for the amount

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of nitrogen

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that they could

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put on their land.

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So that really kind

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of restarted

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some of the discussions

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around,

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at least in my area

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particularly,

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what can we do to support

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dairy farms

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to, reduce the amount

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of nitrogen

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in their manure?

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So that

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that's the type

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of projects

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that I was working on

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when I was over there

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and still currently

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in the Netherlands,

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there's and

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a lot of other,

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kind of north

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western European

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countries

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like Ireland,

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France,

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are all dealing

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with these issues,

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where farmers

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are being pressured

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to reduce the amount

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of nitrogen or phosphorus

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that they're

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putting on the land,

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which can have

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some restrictions on

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how they

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manage their farm,

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how much milk

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they can produce, the,

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financial sustainability

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of their operations.

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So there's also been

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a lot of tension

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between the government,

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farmers, society

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and you read about

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some of that stuff

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on the news as well.

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Farmer protests, tractors

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in the streets,

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those types of things.

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So, it's been

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a contentious issue

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over there,

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but possibly

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a good example

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for other parts

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of the world as well

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that haven't experienced

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quite as much intense,

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legislation

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around

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nitrogen pollution.

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But potentially

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that's something

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that could be coming.

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So something

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to think about

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even over here,

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in the US.

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And speaking of that,

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you did talk about that

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at the state of the science summit

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this, past spring.

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You mentioned

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you're like, I'm

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not into methane

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as much as I am

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into nitrogen.

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I am I in the

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right place?

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But you and Dr. Maggie Gill

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talked a lot about it,

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and you said, you know,

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methane was

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the headline issue,

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but the deeper story

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might be the cow itself

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and the physiology

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and the biology.

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Can you talk a little bit

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about what

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you meant by that?

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Yeah.

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So methane

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has been getting,

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kind of the star

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of the show,

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certainly here

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in California

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for extremely

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good reasons.

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The more

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the longer I live here,

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the more I've learned.

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Yeah.

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Through the clear center

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from Dr. Mitloehner

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All of the

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amazing things

00:06:03:08 - 00:06:03:21

that have been done,

00:06:03:21 - 00:06:04:17

particularly in

00:06:04:17 - 00:06:05:06

this state,

00:06:05:06 - 00:06:06:05

really leading the way

00:06:06:05 - 00:06:07:16

for,

00:06:07:16 - 00:06:08:20

solutions to

00:06:08:20 - 00:06:09:23

reducing methane,

00:06:09:23 - 00:06:11:16

in, ruminant

00:06:11:16 - 00:06:12:15

production systems

00:06:12:15 - 00:06:13:19

across the country.

00:06:13:19 - 00:06:15:03

And that's great.

00:06:15:03 - 00:06:16:14

I'm heavily

00:06:16:14 - 00:06:17:18

biased, of course,

00:06:17:18 - 00:06:18:14

but I actually think

00:06:18:14 - 00:06:19:18

nitrogen in particular

00:06:19:18 - 00:06:20:11

is one,

00:06:20:11 - 00:06:21:07

is a much more

00:06:21:07 - 00:06:22:18

difficult problem

00:06:22:18 - 00:06:24:13

to solve than methane.

00:06:24:13 - 00:06:26:04

It can change a

00:06:26:04 - 00:06:28:21

lot in the environment.

00:06:28:23 - 00:06:29:22

There's no

00:06:29:22 - 00:06:30:13

there will never

00:06:30:13 - 00:06:32:01

be an inhibitor.

00:06:32:01 - 00:06:33:01

The way that we talk

00:06:33:01 - 00:06:34:02

about inhibitors

00:06:34:02 - 00:06:35:11

for methane in the rumen.

00:06:35:11 - 00:06:36:05

So there's

00:06:36:05 - 00:06:37:07

some different challenges

00:06:37:07 - 00:06:38:13

involved with that.

00:06:38:13 - 00:06:39:15

And to bring it back

00:06:39:15 - 00:06:40:06

to your question

00:06:40:06 - 00:06:40:22

about kind of the

00:06:40:22 - 00:06:43:14

whole cow,

00:06:43:14 - 00:06:45:02

we know very well

00:06:45:02 - 00:06:45:22

the pathway

00:06:45:22 - 00:06:47:17

that leads to methane

00:06:47:17 - 00:06:49:00

in the rumen, microbes,

00:06:49:00 - 00:06:51:05

fermentation, etc.

00:06:51:07 - 00:06:52:06

Nitrogen

00:06:52:06 - 00:06:54:16

is an essential,

00:06:54:16 - 00:06:57:16

component of well, it

00:06:57:16 - 00:06:58:20

originates from cows

00:06:58:20 - 00:07:00:00

consuming protein,

00:07:00:00 - 00:07:00:23

which they need

00:07:00:23 - 00:07:01:18

to make milk

00:07:01:18 - 00:07:03:00

and they need to grow

00:07:03:00 - 00:07:04:04

and they need to be able

00:07:04:04 - 00:07:05:12

to, have healthy

00:07:05:12 - 00:07:06:23

reproductive cycles,

00:07:06:23 - 00:07:08:14

healthy immune systems,

00:07:08:14 - 00:07:09:11

all of those things.

00:07:09:11 - 00:07:11:03

So to find the balance

00:07:11:03 - 00:07:12:07

of all of

00:07:12:07 - 00:07:13:11

those systems together

00:07:13:11 - 00:07:14:08

while supporting them

00:07:14:08 - 00:07:14:19

with protein

00:07:14:19 - 00:07:15:10

in their diet,

00:07:15:10 - 00:07:16:01

that's also a

00:07:16:01 - 00:07:17:02

big challenge.

00:07:17:02 - 00:07:18:02

So I think our

00:07:18:02 - 00:07:19:01

one of the points

00:07:19:01 - 00:07:19:17

we wanted to raise

00:07:19:17 - 00:07:20:09

with that talk at

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:22:03

the summit was just that

00:07:22:03 - 00:07:23:06

we tend to get

00:07:23:06 - 00:07:23:17

a little bit

00:07:23:17 - 00:07:24:16

of the blinders on

00:07:24:16 - 00:07:25:15

when we look at,

00:07:25:15 - 00:07:27:04

mitigating

00:07:27:04 - 00:07:29:00

enteric methane.

00:07:29:00 - 00:07:29:19

And what could be

00:07:29:19 - 00:07:31:16

the consequences of

00:07:31:16 - 00:07:33:04

drastically reducing

00:07:33:04 - 00:07:34:03

a really essential

00:07:34:03 - 00:07:36:18

cycle in the RUmen

00:07:36:20 - 00:07:37:09

that we just

00:07:37:09 - 00:07:38:05

haven't considered.

00:07:38:05 - 00:07:39:05

yet, we're very focused

00:07:39:05 - 00:07:39:23

on hitting

00:07:39:23 - 00:07:41:16

those targets, reducing

00:07:41:16 - 00:07:42:05

and coming up

00:07:42:05 - 00:07:42:23

with really innovative

00:07:42:23 - 00:07:44:00

ways to do that.

00:07:44:00 - 00:07:45:08

But we might be missing

00:07:45:08 - 00:07:46:01

some of the down

00:07:46:01 - 00:07:47:13

the road consequences.

00:07:47:13 - 00:07:49:11

Like for example,

00:07:49:11 - 00:07:50:07

how that interacts

00:07:50:07 - 00:07:51:05

with protein

00:07:51:05 - 00:07:53:18

metabolism in the body.

00:07:53:18 - 00:07:54:14

And to that degree,

00:07:54:14 - 00:07:54:23

you talked

00:07:54:23 - 00:07:55:17

a little bit about,

00:07:55:17 - 00:07:57:09

the you use

00:07:57:09 - 00:07:58:06

the metaphor of the brain

00:07:58:06 - 00:07:59:04

being like the conductor

00:07:59:04 - 00:07:59:19

of an orchestra.

00:07:59:19 - 00:08:00:06

I thought that was

00:08:00:06 - 00:08:00:16

really interesting.

00:08:00:16 - 00:08:01:01

You and Maggie

00:08:01:01 - 00:08:01:15

talked about that

00:08:01:15 - 00:08:02:01

and the organs

00:08:02:01 - 00:08:02:13

or the different

00:08:02:13 - 00:08:04:04

sections of the orchestra

00:08:04:04 - 00:08:04:20

and kind of that

00:08:04:20 - 00:08:06:22

gut brain axis of,

00:08:06:22 - 00:08:08:03

the gut and the brain

00:08:08:03 - 00:08:09:04

talk to each other a lot.

00:08:09:04 - 00:08:10:09

I saw some something

00:08:10:09 - 00:08:10:17

one time

00:08:10:17 - 00:08:11:11

they said that the gut

00:08:11:11 - 00:08:11:21

and the brain

00:08:11:21 - 00:08:12:16

are like besties.

00:08:12:16 - 00:08:13:01

They talk

00:08:13:01 - 00:08:13:16

about everything,

00:08:13:16 - 00:08:13:21

you know,

00:08:13:21 - 00:08:14:23

whether it's emotional

00:08:14:23 - 00:08:16:22

or physiological

00:08:16:22 - 00:08:18:22

We don't know that much

00:08:18:22 - 00:08:20:00

about the gut

00:08:20:00 - 00:08:21:09

brain axis in

00:08:21:09 - 00:08:22:08

ruminant animals

00:08:22:08 - 00:08:23:13

in particular. Why?

00:08:23:13 - 00:08:24:21

Why is that?

00:08:24:21 - 00:08:25:06

Yeah.

00:08:25:06 - 00:08:26:16

So I had to shout out,

00:08:26:16 - 00:08:27:09

Maggie,

00:08:27:09 - 00:08:28:23

for that whole concept.

00:08:28:23 - 00:08:30:11

That was really her idea

00:08:30:11 - 00:08:31:08

when we were given

00:08:31:08 - 00:08:32:10

the mic for 30 minutes

00:08:32:10 - 00:08:33:17

to talk at the summit.

00:08:33:17 - 00:08:34:10

And she's okay,

00:08:34:10 - 00:08:34:19

how are we going

00:08:34:19 - 00:08:35:21

to do this?

00:08:35:21 - 00:08:36:18

let’s Sort of structure it

00:08:36:18 - 00:08:37:08

in that way,

00:08:37:08 - 00:08:37:20

and then we can

00:08:37:20 - 00:08:38:11

probably touch

00:08:38:11 - 00:08:39:08

on a lot of relevant

00:08:39:08 - 00:08:40:01

points.

00:08:40:01 - 00:08:41:18

So, that

00:08:41:18 - 00:08:43:14

idea of the brain

00:08:43:14 - 00:08:44:10

gut axis

00:08:44:10 - 00:08:45:09

of course, in humans.

00:08:45:09 - 00:08:47:11

Now for many years,

00:08:47:11 - 00:08:47:23

actually,

00:08:47:23 - 00:08:49:19

the research

00:08:49:21 - 00:08:50:02

there's been

00:08:50:02 - 00:08:50:18

a lot of research

00:08:50:18 - 00:08:51:18

focusing on

00:08:51:18 - 00:08:52:11

the relationship

00:08:52:11 - 00:08:53:02

between the gut

00:08:53:02 - 00:08:54:01

and the brain

00:08:54:01 - 00:08:55:06

and how that impacts

00:08:55:06 - 00:08:56:04

our physical health,

00:08:56:04 - 00:08:57:04

our mental health.

00:08:57:04 - 00:08:59:03

And that's been an area

00:08:59:03 - 00:09:00:04

that's just exploded

00:09:00:04 - 00:09:01:14

over the last years.

00:09:01:14 - 00:09:03:16

When you look to animals,

00:09:03:16 - 00:09:05:16

there is far, far

00:09:05:16 - 00:09:06:20

less in the literature,

00:09:06:20 - 00:09:08:10

perhaps,

00:09:08:10 - 00:09:09:13

in companion animals

00:09:09:13 - 00:09:10:14

that's starting to grow,

00:09:10:14 - 00:09:11:10

which makes sense,

00:09:11:10 - 00:09:12:14

I think, because

00:09:12:14 - 00:09:14:08

of how closely connected

00:09:14:08 - 00:09:14:23

humans

00:09:14:23 - 00:09:16:02

and their companion

00:09:16:02 - 00:09:17:02

animals are,

00:09:17:02 - 00:09:17:15

that would be

00:09:17:15 - 00:09:18:06

the next step

00:09:18:06 - 00:09:19:09

for that research.

00:09:19:09 - 00:09:20:07

But in livestock

00:09:20:07 - 00:09:21:01

species,

00:09:21:01 - 00:09:22:15

there is very little,

00:09:22:15 - 00:09:23:20

so it is just

00:09:23:20 - 00:09:24:16

an interesting thing

00:09:24:16 - 00:09:25:13

to think about,

00:09:25:13 - 00:09:26:07

when we're

00:09:26:07 - 00:09:27:12

talking about,

00:09:27:12 - 00:09:28:21

so the microbes

00:09:28:21 - 00:09:29:08

in the rumen

00:09:29:08 - 00:09:29:16

it's this

00:09:29:16 - 00:09:31:05

symbiotic relationship

00:09:31:05 - 00:09:32:06

with the ruminant animal,

00:09:32:06 - 00:09:32:13

we say

00:09:32:13 - 00:09:33:13

we feed the microbes.

00:09:33:13 - 00:09:34:10

You don't really feed

00:09:34:10 - 00:09:34:22

the cow,

00:09:34:22 - 00:09:36:03

we feed the microbes.

00:09:36:03 - 00:09:37:17

And they've got their own

00:09:37:17 - 00:09:38:21

little biological system

00:09:38:21 - 00:09:40:06

going on there.

00:09:40:06 - 00:09:42:01

So how that relates to

00:09:42:01 - 00:09:42:23

all of the systems

00:09:42:23 - 00:09:43:11

in the body,

00:09:43:11 - 00:09:44:20

including the

00:09:44:20 - 00:09:45:20

neurological system,

00:09:45:20 - 00:09:46:09

which is sort

00:09:46:09 - 00:09:46:21

of controlled

00:09:46:21 - 00:09:47:10

and conducted

00:09:47:10 - 00:09:48:13

by the brain,

00:09:48:13 - 00:09:49:05

that's something

00:09:49:05 - 00:09:50:00

that I think

00:09:50:00 - 00:09:50:13

got a lot of

00:09:50:13 - 00:09:51:18

people thinking,

00:09:51:18 - 00:09:52:18

who knows where

00:09:52:18 - 00:09:53:16

that goes or

00:09:53:16 - 00:09:54:09

how relevant

00:09:54:09 - 00:09:55:01

that might be,

00:09:55:01 - 00:09:55:08

but it

00:09:55:08 - 00:09:56:17

definitely piqued some,

00:09:56:17 - 00:09:58:13

some people's curiosity.

00:09:58:13 - 00:09:59:07

Yeah, it's

00:09:59:07 - 00:10:00:08

such an interesting,

00:10:00:08 - 00:10:00:21

interesting way

00:10:00:21 - 00:10:01:16

of looking at it

00:10:01:16 - 00:10:02:01

that maybe

00:10:02:01 - 00:10:02:09

we haven't

00:10:02:09 - 00:10:03:03

thought of before.

00:10:03:03 - 00:10:03:08

Yeah.

00:10:03:08 - 00:10:04:02

And underscores

00:10:04:02 - 00:10:04:14

how everything

00:10:04:14 - 00:10:05:07

is connected,

00:10:05:07 - 00:10:06:06

at the very least,

00:10:06:06 - 00:10:07:07

trying to come back to

00:10:07:07 - 00:10:07:20

that idea.

00:10:07:20 - 00:10:08:19

If you can't think about

00:10:08:19 - 00:10:09:16

methane mitigation

00:10:09:16 - 00:10:10:20

in a vacuum. Right.

00:10:10:20 - 00:10:11:21

Everything is

00:10:11:21 - 00:10:12:20

connected.

00:10:12:20 - 00:10:13:16

Yeah. Right.

00:10:13:16 - 00:10:14:03

Well, let's talk

00:10:14:03 - 00:10:14:10

a little,

00:10:14:10 - 00:10:14:19

a little bit

00:10:14:19 - 00:10:15:15

about your research

00:10:15:15 - 00:10:16:06

and what you're doing

00:10:16:06 - 00:10:16:19

right now.

00:10:16:19 - 00:10:17:08

Tell us a little bit

00:10:17:08 - 00:10:17:17

about that

00:10:17:17 - 00:10:17:23

because it's

00:10:17:23 - 00:10:18:18

very interesting.

00:10:18:18 - 00:10:19:03

Yeah.

00:10:19:03 - 00:10:21:00

So, as we've made it

00:10:21:00 - 00:10:21:16

pretty clear, I'm

00:10:21:16 - 00:10:23:15

a nitrogen person.

00:10:23:17 - 00:10:25:08

So yeah, since

00:10:25:08 - 00:10:25:20

I've been one

00:10:25:20 - 00:10:26:17

of those fortunate people

00:10:26:17 - 00:10:27:12

that since I started

00:10:27:12 - 00:10:28:10

grad school,

00:10:28:10 - 00:10:29:13

I've always focused

00:10:29:13 - 00:10:30:22

on the same area

00:10:30:22 - 00:10:31:19

that doesn't happen

00:10:31:19 - 00:10:32:09

for everyone.

00:10:32:09 - 00:10:32:19

Some people

00:10:32:19 - 00:10:33:19

kind of flip flop around

00:10:33:19 - 00:10:34:17

until they find the thing

00:10:34:17 - 00:10:35:11

that that

00:10:35:11 - 00:10:36:15

really suits them.

00:10:36:15 - 00:10:37:21

But I started out

00:10:37:21 - 00:10:39:09

working in protein

00:10:39:09 - 00:10:41:03

metabolism in dairy cows,

00:10:41:03 - 00:10:41:12

and that's

00:10:41:12 - 00:10:42:05

still very much

00:10:42:05 - 00:10:43:05

what I work on.

00:10:43:05 - 00:10:43:17

There's a lot

00:10:43:17 - 00:10:44:05

of different

00:10:44:05 - 00:10:44:23

research lines

00:10:44:23 - 00:10:45:22

within that.

00:10:45:22 - 00:10:48:13

So my program here,

00:10:48:13 - 00:10:50:04

at UC davis

00:10:50:04 - 00:10:51:01

focuses

00:10:51:01 - 00:10:51:20

on a couple

00:10:51:20 - 00:10:52:23

of different things.

00:10:52:23 - 00:10:53:20

But one of the

00:10:53:20 - 00:10:54:19

upcoming projects

00:10:54:19 - 00:10:55:15

that we have

00:10:55:15 - 00:10:56:22

is looking at

00:10:56:22 - 00:10:57:14

what we call

00:10:57:14 - 00:10:59:00

urea recycling.

00:10:59:00 - 00:10:59:20

So ruminants,

00:10:59:20 - 00:11:01:03

all animals

00:11:01:03 - 00:11:02:01

have the capability

00:11:02:01 - 00:11:03:00

to do this.

00:11:03:00 - 00:11:04:21

But urea is a product

00:11:04:21 - 00:11:05:21

of nitrogen

00:11:05:21 - 00:11:07:00

metabolism in the body.

00:11:07:00 - 00:11:07:09

So when we

00:11:07:09 - 00:11:08:17

consume protein,

00:11:08:17 - 00:11:10:13

we digest and absorb

00:11:10:13 - 00:11:11:22

those amino acids.

00:11:11:22 - 00:11:12:20

And then

00:11:12:20 - 00:11:13:17

when those

00:11:13:17 - 00:11:14:21

flow to the liver,

00:11:14:21 - 00:11:16:00

some of the ones

00:11:16:00 - 00:11:17:02

that don't get used

00:11:17:02 - 00:11:18:05

for productive purposes,

00:11:18:05 - 00:11:19:07

they get broken down.

00:11:19:07 - 00:11:20:08

And sort of the waste

00:11:20:08 - 00:11:23:01

product of that is urea.

00:11:23:01 - 00:11:24:06

And ultimately

00:11:24:06 - 00:11:25:07

that can get excreted

00:11:25:07 - 00:11:26:18

in urine.

00:11:26:18 - 00:11:28:11

But ruminants are

00:11:28:11 - 00:11:29:08

very efficient

00:11:29:08 - 00:11:29:21

at a process

00:11:29:21 - 00:11:30:08

that we call

00:11:30:08 - 00:11:31:11

urea recycling.

00:11:31:11 - 00:11:31:20

And that's

00:11:31:20 - 00:11:33:00

because of the rumen.

00:11:33:00 - 00:11:34:05

So some of that urea

00:11:34:05 - 00:11:35:13

actually gets recycled

00:11:35:13 - 00:11:36:16

back into the rumen

00:11:36:16 - 00:11:37:16

where the

00:11:37:16 - 00:11:38:10

microbes

00:11:38:10 - 00:11:39:19

can break it down again

00:11:39:19 - 00:11:41:14

and use that nitrogen

00:11:41:14 - 00:11:42:17

to grow,

00:11:42:17 - 00:11:44:04

and then that the protein

00:11:44:04 - 00:11:45:02

in those microbes

00:11:45:02 - 00:11:46:03

actually provides

00:11:46:03 - 00:11:47:22

the majority of protein

00:11:47:22 - 00:11:49:10

supply for the cow.

00:11:49:10 - 00:11:50:08

So you have this cycle

00:11:50:08 - 00:11:51:03

where you have kind of

00:11:51:03 - 00:11:52:13

like the excess nitrogen

00:11:52:13 - 00:11:54:16

gets used again to make,

00:11:54:16 - 00:11:56:13

valuable protein

00:11:56:13 - 00:11:57:05

or amino acid

00:11:57:05 - 00:11:58:17

sources for the cow.

00:11:58:17 - 00:12:01:12

So in growing animals,

00:12:01:12 - 00:12:02:21

we have this

00:12:02:21 - 00:12:05:02

pathway characterized,

00:12:05:02 - 00:12:06:23

in way more detail.

00:12:06:23 - 00:12:07:10

There's not a

00:12:07:10 - 00:12:08:03

lot of literature

00:12:08:03 - 00:12:09:08

on how this works

00:12:09:08 - 00:12:10:17

in lactating dairy cows.

00:12:10:17 - 00:12:11:11

And if we could

00:12:11:11 - 00:12:12:12

potentially use that

00:12:12:12 - 00:12:13:06

as a mechanism

00:12:13:06 - 00:12:13:22

to reduce

00:12:13:22 - 00:12:15:04

the amount of nitrogen

00:12:15:04 - 00:12:15:17

that's going out

00:12:15:17 - 00:12:16:06

in urine.

00:12:16:06 - 00:12:17:08

So kind of

00:12:17:08 - 00:12:18:01

re-partitioning

00:12:18:01 - 00:12:18:19

some of that urea

00:12:18:19 - 00:12:20:17

from urinary excretion,

00:12:20:17 - 00:12:21:09

which is

00:12:21:09 - 00:12:22:03

ultimately ends up

00:12:22:03 - 00:12:22:17

as manure,

00:12:22:17 - 00:12:23:17

which leads

00:12:23:17 - 00:12:24:10

to this problem

00:12:24:10 - 00:12:26:02

of extra nitrogen

00:12:26:02 - 00:12:28:03

in the environment.

00:12:28:05 - 00:12:29:04

If we can kind

00:12:29:04 - 00:12:30:03

of upregulate

00:12:30:03 - 00:12:31:18

that recycling mechanism

00:12:31:18 - 00:12:32:04

and have it

00:12:32:04 - 00:12:33:07

contribute back

00:12:33:07 - 00:12:35:13

as real usable protein,

00:12:35:13 - 00:12:36:09

maybe there's a way

00:12:36:09 - 00:12:36:22

to reduce

00:12:36:22 - 00:12:38:02

some of that excretion.

00:12:38:02 - 00:12:38:17

But the problem is

00:12:38:17 - 00:12:39:10

we don't know a lot

00:12:39:10 - 00:12:40:00

about how

00:12:40:00 - 00:12:41:18

that cycle responds

00:12:41:18 - 00:12:43:18

to different sources

00:12:43:18 - 00:12:44:16

and amounts of protein

00:12:44:16 - 00:12:45:21

in the diet.

00:12:45:21 - 00:12:46:17

So the experiment that

00:12:46:17 - 00:12:47:15

we'll start in

00:12:47:15 - 00:12:48:13

a couple of weeks

00:12:48:13 - 00:12:49:15

will focus on that.

00:12:49:15 - 00:12:50:18

So we'll look at

00:12:50:18 - 00:12:51:16

the different sources

00:12:51:16 - 00:12:52:03

of protein

00:12:52:03 - 00:12:53:02

supply in the diet

00:12:53:02 - 00:12:54:04

and how that impacts

00:12:54:04 - 00:12:55:05

that cycle of urea

00:12:55:05 - 00:12:56:20

recycling in lactating

00:12:56:20 - 00:12:57:11

dairy cows.

00:12:57:11 - 00:12:58:03

Because like I said,

00:12:58:03 - 00:12:59:09

we know

00:12:59:09 - 00:13:00:20

more about

00:13:00:20 - 00:13:02:04

how that process works

00:13:02:04 - 00:13:03:08

in growing cattle.

00:13:03:08 - 00:13:04:07

So like beef cattle,

00:13:04:07 - 00:13:05:07

for example,

00:13:05:07 - 00:13:06:20

but not a lot about it

00:13:06:20 - 00:13:08:01

in lactating cows.

00:13:08:01 - 00:13:08:21

And their diets

00:13:08:21 - 00:13:09:15

are very different.

00:13:09:15 - 00:13:11:00

Their metabolism differs

00:13:11:00 - 00:13:11:09

a lot

00:13:11:09 - 00:13:12:09

you have the mammary gland

00:13:12:09 - 00:13:13:06

in there.

00:13:13:06 - 00:13:15:12

So there are

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:17:00

I expect differences.

00:13:17:00 - 00:13:18:19

And this will be a study

00:13:18:19 - 00:13:19:15

that will really start

00:13:19:15 - 00:13:20:06

to crack

00:13:20:06 - 00:13:21:09

some of that open.

00:13:21:09 - 00:13:22:00

Interesting.

00:13:22:00 - 00:13:23:02

How many, lactating

00:13:23:02 - 00:13:23:12

cows are going

00:13:23:12 - 00:13:24:13

to be studying?

00:13:24:13 - 00:13:24:19

Yeah.

00:13:24:19 - 00:13:27:01

So we have, eight cows.

00:13:27:01 - 00:13:28:01

They're cannulated

00:13:28:01 - 00:13:28:18

So they're the ones

00:13:28:18 - 00:13:29:07

that we can

00:13:29:07 - 00:13:30:21

access the rumen.

00:13:30:21 - 00:13:31:23

And we will be doing it

00:13:31:23 - 00:13:33:14

in a very controlled way

00:13:33:14 - 00:13:34:12

where we

00:13:34:12 - 00:13:35:17

really precisely,

00:13:35:17 - 00:13:37:06

infuse

00:13:37:06 - 00:13:38:13

an amount of protein

00:13:38:13 - 00:13:39:09

into the rumen

00:13:39:09 - 00:13:40:02

and an amount

00:13:40:02 - 00:13:41:05

into the second part

00:13:41:05 - 00:13:42:05

of their digestive tract,

00:13:42:05 - 00:13:42:16

which is just

00:13:42:16 - 00:13:43:09

past the rumen.

00:13:43:09 - 00:13:44:14

And so we can control

00:13:44:14 - 00:13:45:20

very precisely

00:13:45:20 - 00:13:46:17

how much protein

00:13:46:17 - 00:13:47:08

is going into

00:13:47:08 - 00:13:48:02

each compartment

00:13:48:02 - 00:13:48:07

of the

00:13:48:07 - 00:13:49:13

gastrointestinal tract,

00:13:49:13 - 00:13:50:22

and then be able to say

00:13:50:22 - 00:13:51:19

very clearly

00:13:51:19 - 00:13:52:21

what the response is

00:13:52:21 - 00:13:53:17

in that urea

00:13:53:17 - 00:13:55:00

cycling mechanism.

00:13:55:00 - 00:13:55:13

So it's a

00:13:55:13 - 00:13:56:09

very fundamental

00:13:56:09 - 00:13:57:14

metabolism study.

00:13:57:14 - 00:13:58:04

But often

00:13:58:04 - 00:13:59:11

you'll find in

00:13:59:11 - 00:14:00:09

nutrition research

00:14:00:09 - 00:14:00:22

you kind of have

00:14:00:22 - 00:14:01:20

to start there.

00:14:01:20 - 00:14:02:14

And then you

00:14:02:14 - 00:14:03:21

build out into

00:14:03:21 - 00:14:04:21

what would really be used

00:14:04:21 - 00:14:05:14

in practice.

00:14:05:14 - 00:14:06:08

 Right.

00:14:06:08 - 00:14:06:15

Because it's

00:14:06:15 - 00:14:07:12

and it's a full system,

00:14:07:12 - 00:14:08:06

obviously you're

00:14:08:06 - 00:14:09:00

testing the rumen,

00:14:09:00 - 00:14:09:13

you're testing this,

00:14:09:13 - 00:14:11:03

but then the full impact

00:14:11:03 - 00:14:12:05

on the other organs

00:14:12:05 - 00:14:12:20

and whatnot, too,

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:13:05

I would think

00:14:13:05 - 00:14:14:02

you'd have to look at

00:14:14:02 - 00:14:14:17

and figure out

00:14:14:17 - 00:14:15:09

exactly

00:14:15:09 - 00:14:15:22

with a small

00:14:15:22 - 00:14:16:19

number of animals,

00:14:16:19 - 00:14:17:18

we can take a lot

00:14:17:18 - 00:14:18:13

of measurements,

00:14:18:13 - 00:14:19:08

try to get this

00:14:19:08 - 00:14:21:08

whole full body picture,

00:14:21:08 - 00:14:22:19

which we might not

00:14:22:19 - 00:14:23:12

be able to do

00:14:23:12 - 00:14:24:02

if you're

00:14:24:02 - 00:14:25:09

using a feeding study

00:14:25:09 - 00:14:26:20

where you have, say,

00:14:26:20 - 00:14:28:12

60 animals versus

00:14:28:12 - 00:14:29:02

eight in

00:14:29:02 - 00:14:29:22

a really controlled

00:14:29:22 - 00:14:31:18

environment. Yeah, yeah.

00:14:31:18 - 00:14:32:06

And you spoke

00:14:32:06 - 00:14:32:23

about a little bit there,

00:14:32:23 - 00:14:33:14

but the real

00:14:33:14 - 00:14:34:13

world impact,

00:14:34:13 - 00:14:36:05

how could this impact

00:14:36:05 - 00:14:37:13

the real world?

00:14:37:13 - 00:14:38:20

The even though

00:14:38:20 - 00:14:39:02

this is

00:14:39:02 - 00:14:40:11

a very fundamental,

00:14:40:11 - 00:14:42:03

design of an experiment,

00:14:42:03 - 00:14:44:23

it is still based around

00:14:44:23 - 00:14:46:11

what we do in practice.

00:14:46:11 - 00:14:48:14

So, in reality

00:14:48:14 - 00:14:50:11

now, dairy nutritionists,

00:14:50:11 - 00:14:51:22

we're kind of past

00:14:51:22 - 00:14:52:13

the idea

00:14:52:13 - 00:14:54:20

of how much protein do

00:14:54:20 - 00:14:55:18

dairy cows need,

00:14:55:18 - 00:14:56:12

which that used to be

00:14:56:12 - 00:14:57:07

a question years

00:14:57:07 - 00:14:58:02

and years ago.

00:14:58:02 - 00:14:59:02

Do they need,

00:14:59:02 - 00:15:00:13

you know, a diet

00:15:00:13 - 00:15:01:15

that has 14%

00:15:01:15 - 00:15:02:07

crude protein

00:15:02:07 - 00:15:03:17

or 20% crude protein?

00:15:03:17 - 00:15:04:19

What's better?

00:15:04:19 - 00:15:05:09

That's a really

00:15:05:09 - 00:15:06:18

extreme example.

00:15:06:18 - 00:15:07:09

But now we've

00:15:07:09 - 00:15:08:00

sort of evolved

00:15:08:00 - 00:15:08:11

from that

00:15:08:11 - 00:15:09:08

through science.

00:15:09:08 - 00:15:10:13

And now the question

00:15:10:13 - 00:15:11:01

for dairy

00:15:11:01 - 00:15:11:16

nutritionists in

00:15:11:16 - 00:15:13:14

the field is more around

00:15:13:14 - 00:15:14:18

what is the source

00:15:14:18 - 00:15:15:14

of that protein.

00:15:15:14 - 00:15:17:05

So is it protein sources

00:15:17:05 - 00:15:18:08

that are more degradable

00:15:18:08 - 00:15:18:19

in the rumen

00:15:18:19 - 00:15:20:15

in, or that actually

00:15:20:15 - 00:15:21:16

are more resistant

00:15:21:16 - 00:15:22:21

to microbial degradation

00:15:22:21 - 00:15:23:18

and end up

00:15:23:18 - 00:15:25:12

in, the small intestine

00:15:25:12 - 00:15:26:07

to be absorbed

00:15:26:07 - 00:15:28:07

as amino acids there.

00:15:28:07 - 00:15:29:02

How can they use

00:15:29:02 - 00:15:30:01

those different sources

00:15:30:01 - 00:15:31:07

to manipulate

00:15:31:07 - 00:15:32:06

how efficiently

00:15:32:06 - 00:15:33:08

that protein gets used?

00:15:33:08 - 00:15:33:16

Those are the

00:15:33:16 - 00:15:34:10

types of questions

00:15:34:10 - 00:15:35:10

that nutritionists

00:15:35:10 - 00:15:36:22

really care about now.

00:15:36:22 - 00:15:37:14

So the way this

00:15:37:14 - 00:15:38:19

experiment is designed

00:15:38:19 - 00:15:40:06

is to

00:15:40:06 - 00:15:41:06

answer this question

00:15:41:06 - 00:15:41:19

about urea

00:15:41:19 - 00:15:42:21

recycling based

00:15:42:21 - 00:15:44:05

around the source

00:15:44:05 - 00:15:45:12

of protein.

00:15:45:12 - 00:15:47:14

So even though it's very,

00:15:47:14 - 00:15:48:09

fundamental

00:15:48:09 - 00:15:49:19

in its design,

00:15:49:19 - 00:15:51:05

the takeaways

00:15:51:05 - 00:15:52:21

can be pretty

00:15:52:21 - 00:15:53:09

easily

00:15:53:09 - 00:15:54:11

applied in the field

00:15:54:11 - 00:15:55:10

in the sense that, okay,

00:15:55:10 - 00:15:56:09

when we put more

00:15:56:09 - 00:15:57:06

protein in the rumen

00:15:57:06 - 00:15:57:18

and this was

00:15:57:18 - 00:15:58:09

the response,

00:15:58:09 - 00:15:59:02

if we provide

00:15:59:02 - 00:15:59:23

more of that source

00:15:59:23 - 00:16:01:10

that actually bypasses

00:16:01:10 - 00:16:02:15

rumen and degradation,

00:16:02:15 - 00:16:04:02

we get this response.

00:16:04:02 - 00:16:05:05

So it's not actually

00:16:05:05 - 00:16:06:00

that many steps

00:16:06:00 - 00:16:07:00

before you could start

00:16:07:00 - 00:16:07:07

to make

00:16:07:07 - 00:16:08:21

some recommendations.

00:16:08:21 - 00:16:09:21

Yeah. How exciting.

00:16:09:21 - 00:16:11:02

Yeah this is exciting.

00:16:11:02 - 00:16:12:04

How exciting is it for

00:16:12:04 - 00:16:12:16

you personally

00:16:12:16 - 00:16:13:12

to be part of a study

00:16:13:12 - 00:16:13:22

like this

00:16:13:22 - 00:16:15:06

and to do this research?

00:16:15:06 - 00:16:15:21

Yeah, well,

00:16:15:21 - 00:16:16:06

I'm super

00:16:16:06 - 00:16:17:00

excited about it.

00:16:17:00 - 00:16:17:09

And this

00:16:17:09 - 00:16:18:02

will be my first

00:16:18:02 - 00:16:18:14

big trial

00:16:18:14 - 00:16:20:01

here at UC Davis.

00:16:20:03 - 00:16:20:15

So I'm really

00:16:20:15 - 00:16:21:17

proud of our team,

00:16:21:17 - 00:16:22:13

my grad students

00:16:22:13 - 00:16:23:14

who just started,

00:16:23:14 - 00:16:24:16

we're renovating

00:16:24:16 - 00:16:25:23

a facility here

00:16:25:23 - 00:16:26:07

to be able

00:16:26:07 - 00:16:27:18

to do this research.

00:16:27:18 - 00:16:28:14

So over the past

00:16:28:14 - 00:16:29:04

several years,

00:16:29:04 - 00:16:29:15

there hasn't

00:16:29:15 - 00:16:30:12

been a lot of

00:16:30:12 - 00:16:31:19

individual animal

00:16:31:19 - 00:16:32:15

really intensive

00:16:32:15 - 00:16:33:15

metabolism work.

00:16:33:15 - 00:16:34:21

But we do have

00:16:34:21 - 00:16:35:11

a facility

00:16:35:11 - 00:16:36:15

just across the road here

00:16:36:15 - 00:16:37:04

that has been

00:16:37:04 - 00:16:38:15

a bit underutilized.

00:16:38:15 - 00:16:39:17

So we're currently

00:16:39:17 - 00:16:40:02

working on

00:16:40:02 - 00:16:40:19

some renovations

00:16:40:19 - 00:16:41:11

there to be able

00:16:41:11 - 00:16:42:05

to house,

00:16:42:05 - 00:16:43:14

up to ten

00:16:43:14 - 00:16:45:13

cows in individual pens

00:16:45:13 - 00:16:46:16

and do these types

00:16:46:16 - 00:16:48:07

of really,

00:16:48:07 - 00:16:49:21

detailed measurements

00:16:49:21 - 00:16:50:22

of individual feed

00:16:50:22 - 00:16:53:03

intake, milk production,

00:16:53:03 - 00:16:54:21

having animals being able

00:16:54:21 - 00:16:55:21

easily accessible

00:16:55:21 - 00:16:56:18

for sampling,

00:16:56:18 - 00:16:57:16

things like that.

00:16:57:16 - 00:16:59:12

Looking at their

00:16:59:12 - 00:17:00:06

everything that goes

00:17:00:06 - 00:17:00:21

into the animal,

00:17:00:21 - 00:17:01:20

everything that goes

00:17:01:20 - 00:17:02:23

out of the animal,

00:17:02:23 - 00:17:04:07

and really understand

00:17:04:07 - 00:17:04:12

a lot

00:17:04:12 - 00:17:04:22

about what

00:17:04:22 - 00:17:05:20

goes on in between.

00:17:05:20 - 00:17:07:02

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:07:02 - 00:17:07:17

So I hope

00:17:07:17 - 00:17:09:07

this will kickstart,

00:17:09:07 - 00:17:09:23

a nice line

00:17:09:23 - 00:17:11:01

of extra line of research

00:17:11:01 - 00:17:11:18

for us

00:17:11:18 - 00:17:13:04

over the coming years.

00:17:13:04 - 00:17:13:16

And you,

00:17:13:16 - 00:17:14:08

you spoke about their

00:17:14:08 - 00:17:15:04

about research, too,

00:17:15:04 - 00:17:15:15

and you mentioned it

00:17:15:15 - 00:17:16:05

at the summit

00:17:16:05 - 00:17:17:00

this past spring,

00:17:17:00 - 00:17:18:02

that there are still

00:17:18:02 - 00:17:18:19

a lot of questions

00:17:18:19 - 00:17:20:03

when it comes to cows

00:17:20:03 - 00:17:20:23

and nutrition.

00:17:20:23 - 00:17:22:09

And that's okay.

00:17:22:09 - 00:17:23:03

We've answered some,

00:17:23:03 - 00:17:23:13

but there are a

00:17:23:13 - 00:17:24:11

lot of questions

00:17:24:11 - 00:17:24:17

out there

00:17:24:17 - 00:17:25:11

still to be answered,

00:17:25:11 - 00:17:26:07

which is exciting

00:17:26:07 - 00:17:27:08

for researchers

00:17:27:08 - 00:17:28:10

and for

00:17:28:10 - 00:17:29:06

future students

00:17:29:06 - 00:17:29:22

and researchers

00:17:29:22 - 00:17:30:09

to answer

00:17:30:09 - 00:17:31:16

some of those questions.

00:17:31:16 - 00:17:32:22

I guess the question is,

00:17:32:22 - 00:17:33:13

where do you see

00:17:33:13 - 00:17:34:10

the future of this

00:17:34:10 - 00:17:35:09

sort of research going?

00:17:35:09 - 00:17:36:09

Do you see it going

00:17:36:09 - 00:17:37:21

a certain path or

00:17:37:21 - 00:17:38:21

or do you have any hopes

00:17:38:21 - 00:17:39:09

for the where

00:17:39:09 - 00:17:40:18

the research might go?

00:17:40:18 - 00:17:41:11

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:41:11 - 00:17:42:02

So I mean,

00:17:42:02 - 00:17:44:04

we always have hopes and

00:17:44:04 - 00:17:45:02

big crazy

00:17:45:02 - 00:17:45:18

what seem like

00:17:45:18 - 00:17:47:02

crazy ideas now,

00:17:47:02 - 00:17:47:23

but I'm sure that's

00:17:47:23 - 00:17:48:14

the same thing

00:17:48:14 - 00:17:49:08

that, you know,

00:17:49:08 - 00:17:51:01

my mentors said years ago

00:17:51:01 - 00:17:51:14

and they started

00:17:51:14 - 00:17:52:03

their career.

00:17:52:03 - 00:17:52:11

It's like,

00:17:52:11 - 00:17:52:23

these are probably

00:17:52:23 - 00:17:53:15

crazy ideas.

00:17:53:15 - 00:17:54:08

But now that's

00:17:54:08 - 00:17:54:23

the reality.

00:17:54:23 - 00:17:55:05

You know,

00:17:55:05 - 00:17:56:06

in the industry.

00:17:56:06 - 00:17:56:14

Yeah.

00:17:56:14 - 00:17:57:09

In this area,

00:17:57:09 - 00:17:57:23

I think

00:17:57:23 - 00:17:58:15

what's coming down

00:17:58:15 - 00:17:59:19

the pipe is starting

00:17:59:19 - 00:18:00:16

to get

00:18:00:16 - 00:18:02:06

way more information

00:18:02:06 - 00:18:04:07

about what

00:18:04:07 - 00:18:05:03

in terms of protein

00:18:05:03 - 00:18:06:05

supply, really,

00:18:06:05 - 00:18:07:09

what are the amino acids

00:18:07:09 - 00:18:08:01

that are available

00:18:08:01 - 00:18:09:05

for absorption

00:18:09:05 - 00:18:10:17

for ruminant animals.

00:18:10:17 - 00:18:12:20

And that has been

00:18:12:20 - 00:18:13:22

for a long time,

00:18:13:22 - 00:18:14:09

a question

00:18:14:09 - 00:18:15:04

that's been a bit hard

00:18:15:04 - 00:18:16:23

to get at in an easily

00:18:16:23 - 00:18:17:18

accessible way.

00:18:17:18 - 00:18:18:18

You needed these

00:18:18:18 - 00:18:19:07

intensive

00:18:19:07 - 00:18:20:10

metabolism studies

00:18:20:10 - 00:18:21:10

to be able to quantify

00:18:21:10 - 00:18:21:20

that,

00:18:21:20 - 00:18:22:17

which is difficult

00:18:22:17 - 00:18:24:11

when you, in reality,

00:18:24:11 - 00:18:26:02

have a really diverse

00:18:26:02 - 00:18:27:12

set of diets across

00:18:27:12 - 00:18:28:13

countries, different

00:18:28:13 - 00:18:29:11

regions of the world,

00:18:29:11 - 00:18:29:22

even different

00:18:29:22 - 00:18:32:09

regions of a state.

00:18:32:11 - 00:18:33:10

How do you

00:18:33:10 - 00:18:34:07

capture all of

00:18:34:07 - 00:18:35:17

that variability?

00:18:35:17 - 00:18:37:05

By taking samples

00:18:37:05 - 00:18:37:10

that are

00:18:37:10 - 00:18:38:05

easily accessible

00:18:38:05 - 00:18:39:01

that you can do across

00:18:39:01 - 00:18:40:04

a lot of animals.

00:18:40:04 - 00:18:40:15

And I think

00:18:40:15 - 00:18:41:14

that's an area

00:18:41:14 - 00:18:42:12

that me

00:18:42:12 - 00:18:43:06

and some collaborators

00:18:43:06 - 00:18:44:17

are starting to work on

00:18:44:17 - 00:18:45:11

for the future

00:18:45:11 - 00:18:46:17

to help optimize

00:18:46:17 - 00:18:48:02

nutritional models,

00:18:48:02 - 00:18:49:01

help have

00:18:49:01 - 00:18:49:23

a better understanding

00:18:49:23 - 00:18:51:04

of the response

00:18:51:04 - 00:18:52:16

to a nutritionist

00:18:52:16 - 00:18:53:12

making a

00:18:53:12 - 00:18:54:07

particular choice

00:18:54:07 - 00:18:54:18

about one

00:18:54:18 - 00:18:55:13

ingredient versus

00:18:55:13 - 00:18:56:05

another

00:18:56:05 - 00:18:56:19

in terms

00:18:56:19 - 00:18:57:20

of the efficiency

00:18:57:20 - 00:18:58:20

with which the protein

00:18:58:20 - 00:18:59:14

in that ingredient

00:18:59:14 - 00:19:00:09

is going to be used

00:19:00:09 - 00:19:01:03

for milk

00:19:01:03 - 00:19:03:00

or muscle, whatever.

00:19:03:00 - 00:19:04:03

The case may be.

00:19:04:03 - 00:19:04:13

So that's

00:19:04:13 - 00:19:05:15

really exciting.

00:19:05:15 - 00:19:07:02

I also think

00:19:07:02 - 00:19:07:17

thinking about

00:19:07:17 - 00:19:08:21

the impact of

00:19:08:21 - 00:19:09:23

early life protein

00:19:09:23 - 00:19:11:10

nutrition on later life,

00:19:11:10 - 00:19:12:12

nitrogen efficiency

00:19:12:12 - 00:19:12:23

is a really

00:19:12:23 - 00:19:13:21

interesting area.

00:19:13:21 - 00:19:17:17

There's, abundant,

00:19:17:17 - 00:19:18:12

calf research

00:19:18:12 - 00:19:19:03

that goes on.

00:19:19:03 - 00:19:20:07

There's some really,

00:19:20:07 - 00:19:21:01

expert

00:19:21:01 - 00:19:22:19

calf research out there

00:19:22:19 - 00:19:24:04

starting to look at,

00:19:24:04 - 00:19:25:13

nutritional profile

00:19:25:13 - 00:19:26:08

for calves.

00:19:26:08 - 00:19:27:18

Over the last several

00:19:27:18 - 00:19:29:09

years, protein is an area

00:19:29:09 - 00:19:30:01

that I think has

00:19:30:01 - 00:19:33:11

been under evaluated.

00:19:33:13 - 00:19:34:11

And then is

00:19:34:11 - 00:19:35:11

there what is the

00:19:35:11 - 00:19:37:01

impact on calves

00:19:37:01 - 00:19:37:14

being fed

00:19:37:14 - 00:19:38:09

a certain profile

00:19:38:09 - 00:19:39:05

of protein

00:19:39:05 - 00:19:40:13

source or level?

00:19:40:13 - 00:19:42:05

Does that impact

00:19:42:05 - 00:19:42:20

how efficient

00:19:42:20 - 00:19:43:10

they are using

00:19:43:10 - 00:19:45:13

nitrogen in later life?

00:19:45:13 - 00:19:46:09

That's one of those

00:19:46:09 - 00:19:46:18

like big,

00:19:46:18 - 00:19:49:18

crazy types of questions.

00:19:49:20 - 00:19:50:18

So that's something

00:19:50:18 - 00:19:52:01

I'm interested in. Yeah.

00:19:52:01 - 00:19:52:19

So those are

00:19:52:19 - 00:19:53:11

some of the areas

00:19:53:11 - 00:19:54:07

that hopefully my lab

00:19:54:07 - 00:19:55:00

will tackle over

00:19:55:00 - 00:19:56:08

the next couple of years.

00:19:56:08 - 00:19:57:03

That's exciting.

00:19:57:03 - 00:19:57:17

Yeah, that's

00:19:57:17 - 00:19:58:10

really exciting.

00:19:58:10 - 00:19:59:12

Anything I didn't ask you

00:19:59:12 - 00:20:00:08

that you want to add

00:20:00:08 - 00:20:01:04

about the research

00:20:01:04 - 00:20:02:01

going on here

00:20:02:01 - 00:20:03:10

and your time at UC

00:20:03:10 - 00:20:04:04

Davis?

00:20:04:04 - 00:20:04:20

Thank you for being

00:20:04:20 - 00:20:05:01

thank you

00:20:05:01 - 00:20:05:22

for coming to UC Davis.

00:20:05:22 - 00:20:07:11

Yeah, I know it's

00:20:07:11 - 00:20:08:11

great to be here.

00:20:08:11 - 00:20:09:21

I think this is

00:20:09:21 - 00:20:10:14

a good place

00:20:10:14 - 00:20:13:00

to be for this nitrogen.

00:20:13:00 - 00:20:15:07

Question.

00:20:15:07 - 00:20:16:13

I know when I,

00:20:16:13 - 00:20:17:17

you know, met Frank

00:20:17:17 - 00:20:18:12

a couple years ago

00:20:18:12 - 00:20:19:12

now,

00:20:19:12 - 00:20:20:22

during my interviews

00:20:20:22 - 00:20:21:13

and things like that,

00:20:21:13 - 00:20:22:03

when I was thinking

00:20:22:03 - 00:20:23:03

about coming here,

00:20:23:03 - 00:20:25:06

he was very adamant

00:20:25:06 - 00:20:26:07

that nitrogen

00:20:26:07 - 00:20:27:20

would be a problem here.

00:20:27:20 - 00:20:28:19

And it's already

00:20:28:19 - 00:20:29:07

a problem here

00:20:29:07 - 00:20:29:23

in California,

00:20:29:23 - 00:20:31:09

but that the fact that

00:20:31:09 - 00:20:32:04

if we kind of lead

00:20:32:04 - 00:20:32:19

by example

00:20:32:19 - 00:20:33:17

with methane, there's

00:20:33:17 - 00:20:34:12

no reason to think

00:20:34:12 - 00:20:35:00

that we couldn't

00:20:35:00 - 00:20:36:10

do the same

00:20:36:10 - 00:20:36:22

in terms

00:20:36:22 - 00:20:38:02

of the nitrogen problem

00:20:38:02 - 00:20:38:17

as well.

00:20:38:17 - 00:20:41:01

So, I think I'm

00:20:41:01 - 00:20:42:04

happy to be in a place

00:20:42:04 - 00:20:42:22

where I came from,

00:20:42:22 - 00:20:43:06

a place

00:20:43:06 - 00:20:43:09

where

00:20:43:09 - 00:20:44:09

that was really relevant,

00:20:44:09 - 00:20:44:18

that being

00:20:44:18 - 00:20:45:11

the Netherlands

00:20:45:11 - 00:20:46:00

at wageningen

00:20:46:00 - 00:20:47:02

university

00:20:47:02 - 00:20:48:12

to another area

00:20:48:12 - 00:20:49:07

that it's relevant,

00:20:49:07 - 00:20:49:23

and then to be

00:20:49:23 - 00:20:50:12

at the place

00:20:50:12 - 00:20:51:17

where already has

00:20:51:17 - 00:20:52:13

a strong reputation

00:20:52:13 - 00:20:53:07

of making investments

00:20:53:07 - 00:20:54:06

on the dairy industry

00:20:54:06 - 00:20:55:03

in the state,

00:20:55:03 - 00:20:56:12

and then by extension,

00:20:56:12 - 00:20:57:19

the country.

00:20:57:19 - 00:20:58:15

Yeah, that's

00:20:58:15 - 00:21:01:07

that's special.

00:21:01:09 - 00:21:02:09

there's a lot of research

00:21:02:09 - 00:21:03:03

to still be done

00:21:03:03 - 00:21:03:16

and we're excited.

00:21:03:16 - 00:21:04:04

You're part

00:21:04:04 - 00:21:05:02

of the research

00:21:05:02 - 00:21:05:22

here at UC Davis.

00:21:05:22 - 00:21:06:13

And thank you so much

00:21:06:13 - 00:21:07:06

for joining us

00:21:07:06 - 00:21:08:06

and sharing

00:21:08:06 - 00:21:09:01

your knowledge with us.

00:21:09:01 - 00:21:10:13

Yeah, of course.

00:21:10:13 - 00:21:11:03

And thank you

00:21:11:03 - 00:21:11:17

for joining us.

00:21:11:17 - 00:21:12:14

We'll see you again

00:21:12:14 - 00:21:13:02

next time.

00:21:13:02 - 00:21:14:03

on clear conversations.